Comments on: The Two Perspectives on XML http://www.publishingsilicon.com/2009/11/the-two-perspectives-on-xml/ Max Dunn's electronic publishing blog: reconciling information and rendition technologies Fri, 29 Jan 2010 04:59:48 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: admin http://www.publishingsilicon.com/2009/11/the-two-perspectives-on-xml/comment-page-1/#comment-6 admin Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:53:15 +0000 http://siliconmax.wordpress.com/?p=5#comment-6 Thank you both for the comments! Yes I should have described more of just what differentiates the document- and data-perspectives... will post again on this I'm sure, but in general the XML I see in the data world tends to be message-oriented: often a very flat structure, usually much smaller files, relational data wrapped in tags, SOAP messages, WSDL, etc. Developers usually love tools like XML Spy: they vastly prefer schema to DTD (Microsoft even went so far as to say "DTDs are a security risk" LOL) as strong data types do make a tons of sense for them, and as structures are often defined automatically they don't see much value in human-readable schema. Document-centric XML has to handle, um, documents, with characteristics such as component reuse, hyperlinking, cross-references; the things DITA handles are generally relevant only to this side of XML. Many in the document-centric world still hand code DTDs. Of course XML is XML, so it is a continuum without a strongly identifiable border. When we started Silicon Publishing in 2000, we stopped using Xyvision. Initially this was not our first choice but economic reality. However, being forced into early adoption of InDesign automation turned out to be a very good thing. We built apps that opened up the desktop app and would run for 22 hours to produce, for example, 100 healthcare directories from a database, driven by a rules table. We begged Adobe for an InDesign Server for 5 years, and were in the beta before the first one came out: my request to join the beta was something like "I am probably the only person on the planet who literally dreams about an InDesign Server." Xyvision was (is?) great! Very fast, great composition, one of the first/best tools to automate typographical craft. It will probably stay around a long time because many automated document generation programs work with it - we find people trying to move away from it, yet typically there is significant rework. I hope SDL keeps it going; they sure have acquired many companies. I still like InDesign Server better as it surpasses the typography/graphics, but I miss the speed. Thank you both for the comments! Yes I should have described more of just what differentiates the document- and data-perspectives… will post again on this I’m sure, but in general the XML I see in the data world tends to be message-oriented: often a very flat structure, usually much smaller files, relational data wrapped in tags, SOAP messages, WSDL, etc. Developers usually love tools like XML Spy: they vastly prefer schema to DTD (Microsoft even went so far as to say “DTDs are a security risk” LOL) as strong data types do make a tons of sense for them, and as structures are often defined automatically they don’t see much value in human-readable schema. Document-centric XML has to handle, um, documents, with characteristics such as component reuse, hyperlinking, cross-references; the things DITA handles are generally relevant only to this side of XML. Many in the document-centric world still hand code DTDs. Of course XML is XML, so it is a continuum without a strongly identifiable border.

When we started Silicon Publishing in 2000, we stopped using Xyvision. Initially this was not our first choice but economic reality. However, being forced into early adoption of InDesign automation turned out to be a very good thing. We built apps that opened up the desktop app and would run for 22 hours to produce, for example, 100 healthcare directories from a database, driven by a rules table. We begged Adobe for an InDesign Server for 5 years, and were in the beta before the first one came out: my request to join the beta was something like “I am probably the only person on the planet who literally dreams about an InDesign Server.”

Xyvision was (is?) great! Very fast, great composition, one of the first/best tools to automate typographical craft. It will probably stay around a long time because many automated document generation programs work with it – we find people trying to move away from it, yet typically there is significant rework. I hope SDL keeps it going; they sure have acquired many companies. I still like InDesign Server better as it surpasses the typography/graphics, but I miss the speed.

]]> By: Bill Trippe http://www.publishingsilicon.com/2009/11/the-two-perspectives-on-xml/comment-page-1/#comment-5 Bill Trippe Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:45:02 +0000 http://siliconmax.wordpress.com/?p=5#comment-5 Good thoughts. One question--did you ever get rid of Xyvision? I still see it in a lot of scientific and technical publishing. Good thoughts. One question–did you ever get rid of Xyvision? I still see it in a lot of scientific and technical publishing.

]]> By: loarabia http://www.publishingsilicon.com/2009/11/the-two-perspectives-on-xml/comment-page-1/#comment-4 loarabia Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:54:19 +0000 http://siliconmax.wordpress.com/?p=5#comment-4 Interesting read. I'd love to hear more. I'd be particularly interested in hearing your definition of document-centric XML and data-centric XML along with some examples to get a feel for the nuances you see in the two models and I'd also love to hear your telling of some more of the history and evolution of the standards. thanks for a good read Interesting read. I’d love to hear more. I’d be particularly interested in hearing your definition of document-centric XML and data-centric XML along with some examples to get a feel for the nuances you see in the two models and I’d also love to hear your telling of some more of the history and evolution of the standards.

thanks for a good read

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